Friday, March 31, 2006

Just another day in paradise

You better duck when that awful sound goes

*Boom*

Thats what's happenin in the parking lot
Thats whats happenin on stage

Bang bang, that awful sound
Bang bang, that awful sound


Roots and Nancy Sinatra; what better way to describe another day in paradise…er, Gaza. I heard that phrase a lot, paradise. Of people describing their homes; their gardens; their razed orchards. They don’t see the war and the destruction and the lawlessness and all of the ugliness of occupation and anarchy.

They see beauty.




*BOOOM boom*

Living here is always surreal, to it mildly. But you learn to compartmentalize and move on with your life. Internalize, adapt and survive. Sometimes, for a moment, I try and detach this adapted self from my body, to re-gain perspective.

Yesterday, as I was having mint tea and date cookies at my cousin’s house, who is here visiting from the UK where her husband is completing his pHD (her daughter is the the “cutie” pictured behind Yousuf below). Her father-in-law, a fiery little man of 80 something years, was debating with his son, something about the differences of the Palestinian educational system “then and now”, as Yousuf sat trying to compete for Dalia’s (my cousin’s daughter) attention, playing with her dolls and baby stroller (yes, my son is in touch with his feminine side).

And swirling all around us, as entertainment for the evening, was a “symphony” of war, as people like to describe it here. The distinct double-boom of tank artillery shells, *BOOM boom*, every few seconds, along with the single explosions of what I would later learn were navy-gunship attacks, interdispersed with rapid machine-gun fire, a swarm of drones whirring incessantly overhead, and Apache helicopters attacking areas in northern and easern Gaza.

My cousin told her daughter they were just fireworks and not to be alarmed, so she too (four-years-old), casually ignored them.

The shelling ceased for a while after that, until around 3am where we were literally shocked awake by a tremendous explosion. Just two streets down from us- an F-16 warplane had dropped bomb on a playing field (that was the site of a large celebration attended by over 100, 000 Palestinians, including Ismail Haniya, and members of different factions commemorating Land Day), something that has not happened in a while because of the disproportionalality and potential causalities inflicted in using such weaponry against a densely populated city and its civilian population.

The field was empty, but the explosion left a tremendous crater and its sheer force scared us senseless. At first we though it might be a sonic boom, but it did not have the distinct after-echo that accompanies that. This explosion was so loud I thought I might find the street in front of me taken out; that or doomsday was upon us. Sometimes I think when it comes I might not know the difference. We weren’t sure what was happening, and because of the drones overhead, all the television satellite signals were scrambled, so we panicked and held hands in bed until it passed.

It’s quiet again this morning. The sun it out. Yousuf is taking his nap. Beit Lahiya wild berries are in season. Bees are pollinating with spring’s explosion of color and fertility. And somewhere of Gaza’s besieged coast, a fisherman is lamenting his luck at sea.

It’s just another day in paradise

47 Comments:

Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

BBC NEWS Reports march the 28.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/48550 56.stm

KATYUSHA ROCKED FIRED FROM GAZA

A Bedouin Arab shepherd and his son were killed near Gaza
Palestinian have fired a Katyusha-style rocket at Israel from Gaza for the first time, the Israeli army said.
One of the rockets, which are bigger than the makeshift Qassam missiles militants usually launch, fell near a kibbutz in southern Israel.

There was no damage or casualties reported at the Itfah kibbutz.
/.............../

The Arab shepherds - a father and his teenage son - died on Tuesday morning in a blast near Nahal Oz farming community just a few hundred metres east of the Gaza Strip.


The Islamic Jihad militant group claimed responsibility for the blast saying it had timed a rocket attack to disrupt the election in Israel.

The Israeli army said the explosion might have been caused by a rocket that had lain dormant for some time.

However, the army did confirm that three rockets had been fired from Gaza during the day.

The dead were Bedouin Arabs, who make up about 10% of Israel's Arab community, which itself represents about one-fifth of Israel's total population.
(END OF QUOTE).


The Jerusalem Post reports.





IDF bombs Kassam launch sites


" Following a week of non-stop Kassam fire, the IDF bombed a bridge leading to Kassam rocket launch sites in the northern Gaza Strip and conducted aerial strikes at access routes in the Sajaya area in the Gaza Strip early Friday.".


/......./

In the past, IDF artillery fire against Kassam rocket cells targeted empty fields in the vicinity of the launch sites but not the precise position of the launchers. On Thursday, the army warned the Palestinian Authority it intended to launch such strikes even at the risk of killing Palestinian security personnel stationed nearby.


(END OF QUOTE).

When it comes to

" Just two streets down from us- an F-16 warplane had dropped bomb on a playing field (that was apparently earlier occupied by members of different factions commemorating of Land Day)" the J Post article does explain what did happen.

" In the past, IDF artillery fire against Kassam rocket cells targeted empty fields ".

It looks sometimes IDF does target empty fields.


As it does happen often the palestinians seem unable to make a relationship between their own attacks and the Israeli response ,answer.

These attacks took place because Palestinian faction launched a katyusha to Israel, and several Kassams.

Often the palestinian version of events does describe what israel does to the palestinians but fails to mention the palestinian attacks .


It is a bit like a child that does complain about what another kid has been doing to him but fails to say what he has been doing to other kid.

Just imagine a boxing match in wich one of the contenders keep punching the other fellow and at the same time keep complaining to the audience about the punches he does receive.

This is how palestinians behave.
They send Kassams and complain Israeli army does bombard them.

2:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Solit,
great comment, couldn't put it better my self.
Apparently Laila would like Israel to just Allow the Palestinian "Factions" (as she put it) to attack Israel and have Israel stand by and not react.

The people in Gaza don't seem to get that if there was quiet on the border they would be left alone, no shels, no planes no nothing. Israel has nothing in Gaza Anymore, What they got instead is a constant remider that the Palestinians don't choose life but choose death, and we see it when they blow themselves up in a car that picked up hitch hickers yesterday.

3:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Laila,
Instead of only always Bashing Israel, here is something you can report that actually is good for you and Israel:

"Israeli disengagement from Gaza environmentally clean,"
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=17995&Cr=gaza&Cr1=

Contrary to what the PA claimed after the pullout - it seems that Israel did not leave the land with polluted water, or other such accusations.

3:20 PM  
Blogger johnie said...

Sol


i


understand


the



point



you



are



trying



to



make




but not why you need to use all these spaces?
I'm sorry but it is a little annoying.

3:34 PM  
Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

3:52 PM  
Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

solitarioh2005 said...
Johnie : Human beings are fascinating. It is incredible how they are alike and have the same reactions. For 2 years I posted in a Portuguese board and I got attacked by everyone since I was the only pro Israeli around. So I know a couple of tricks people use to criticize mock a message when they dislike the content.
First people try to prove the other wrong.

If for some reason they are unable to do it they try either to criticize the message in other ways.., or insult the author of the message.

One of the popular ways people used to criticize other peoples messages in the portuguese board was to point the other fellow spelling errors and make a mock the author of the message.Other way was to say the opositor made messages there were too lengthy..

In this case johnie did mock the spaces I did.
such criticism is a compliment to me since I am writhing in English and Johnnie criticism just show my message got through and he got slightly pissed off.

It is astonishing how human beings react the same way .

I was criticized because jonhie did not like what I wrote.

That proves another point I already have talked about.

Peoples beliefs are not rational and when human beings see their beliefs challenged they get mad and they attack the ones who challenge their convictions.

Johnie could not help criticizing me because he did not like the content of my post but at the same time could not prove me wrong either.

4:10 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

How do you stand it Laila ...?
The childish games they play in your comments box - undoubtably written from a safe and comfortable place, 3 meals+ per day without fear of drones, navy bombardment, sonic booms or bombs that fall from the sky ... complacent criticisms of undeniable facts.

What they fail to understand, and what makes my heart break when I read you, is that no one should have to live as you do ...

Stay strong.

4:25 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

My dear Anom,against facts there´s no arguments.
It could be very healthy if somebody just desagree,we could discuss,or expose our points of view.But when someone come here with a different point of view,you pro-Palestinian just start to be "unpolite".
Do something to help,explain why you desagree,how could you help,just explain why you desagree,write your arguments.
Solitario,wasn´t unpolite,or unrespectful,he just said,that would be more helpful if the Palestinians just start to see that they are not be attacking only because someone just decide to.
They are not starving,have you seen pictures from children from Kenia?From Ethiopia? There´s a slighty difference between a palestinian kid don´t you think so?
And by the way Arafat´s wife had enough money to feed them all for a year or more.
I just admire,that Laila just open her Blog to everybody to discuss,if she didn´t want to;she could just shut it,or not allow the comments here.

4:42 PM  
Blogger johnie said...

Sol
may I repeat what I said 'i understand the point you are trying to make but not why you need to use all these spaces'. That is not an attack on you as an individual or on your comments, but a criticism on the style in which you had presented them.

With respect to the points you raised Sol I think it worth remembering exactly what 'Raising Yousuf' is, it is a personal blog, it is her story, it is NOT a news service. If we're going to start criticizing it for being biased and and not presenting all of the facts in context, we might as well criticize every other personal blog on the net including yours.

I do understand why you posted the information about the rocket attacks and don't think you we're wrong for doing so. Having said that I think it worth pointing out that Laila didn't fire the rockets and yet It is her and her son who are suffering as a result of the retaliation. Bombing an empty field at 3am is going to be no more effective at ending this conflict than firing a Katusha into israel, they are both mindless and pointless acts of violence.

5:56 PM  
Blogger johnie said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

5:57 PM  
Blogger johnie said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

5:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Can no one understand that she is talking about her "Paradise" on what is a normal day in HER life?? She does not have to answer what caused it (its not her fault)! Lets see what happens if you lived in her shoes & experienced "paradise".

Can no jew express sympathy for the average Palestinian that is just trying to live day to day? or do they always have to attack & attack?

H

7:15 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am not an Israeli, nor a Jew, nor a Palestinian, nor a Muslim. I am a mother, though. And my heart aches for each one of you, whoever you are. What do you do to preserve your own sanity? To keep going each day?

Laila, I am glad to have stumbled across your blog and admire your courage and your mother's heart. What do you do to keep strong and healthy and present Yousef with the motherly image you want him to see?

K

7:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good photos. Gaza has some amazingly pretty places for what is said to be one of the most densely populated places on the planet.

Unfortunately, I can't see it getting any better politically. Abu Yousef Abu Quka (a famous launcher of rockets)just got himself assassinated, with the PA/Israelis being blamed - random shooting at the funeral and two more dead.

Have the Fatah people moved their families out of Gaza yet? I expect things are going to get very "hot" there once Hamas can no longer pay the multitude of security forces.

In the last 24 hours:
- 2 citizens were injured by gunfire from members of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades over a land dispute.
- 2 children were injured while they were handling a locally manufactured explosive device (in Abu Tir's house, located in Nuseirat refugee camp)
- Thursday, 30 March 2006, unidentified assailants detonated an explosive device against the garage door of a house belonging to Hatem Sabir Othman, 35, who is a Major in the Preventive Security Forces and lives in El-Bureij refugee camp
- Thursday morning, a group of about 30 gunmen, including members of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, closed the section of Salah El-Deen Road opposite El-Bureij refugee camp. They were demanding jobs from the Palestinian National Authority
- an explosion targeted the vehicle of an officer from the Preventive Security Forces, in El-Bureij refugee camp. Following the explosion, gunmen from the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades closed Salah El-Deen Road, opposite El-Bureij refugee camp

Not to mention, on Tuesday morning, 28 March 2006, 10 students were injured when another student threw a home-made hand grenade at them in a quarrel related to a family dispute in Beit Hanoun town in the northern Gaza Strip. This dispute had previously. Most of the wounded were al-Kafarna clan. This dispute previously killed 7 people and wounded 40 others, including 5 children, due to fighting between the families of al-Kafarna and al-Masri in Beit Hanoun in December 2005. (Source: Palestinian Centre for Human Rights)

When the salary crisis really bites I can only see this getting worse.

7:45 PM  
Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

Your criticism does not make much sense.
When it comes to the content of my post ,you write:

" I do understand why you posted the information about the rocket attacks and don't think you we're wrong for doing so. ".

So I guess the content was ok.
I placed Layla post in context and did criticize a mindset.
You criticize my style.
What I replied and maintain.., is that when people cannot prove other peoples arguments wrong.., they do personal attacks.., or try to criticize relatively minor issues just as the style.., the formating of the post...,
2 people from Israel that from time to time do comment this blog Olah and Husband are called the Settler duo.
This is also a way to make a personal criticism.
Pro Israelis fellows are said to be a duo.., or settlers.., or (in my case) their style sucks....;
That is how things are.
When people cannot criticize the content of the message they criticize the messenger or minor issues.

You might say I criticize too much.
If you look back at previous posts you will be able to see that I did post comments when the argument was well underway.



Bombing an empty field at 3am is going to be no more effective at ending this conflict than firing a Katusha into israel, they are both mindless and pointless acts of violence.


When it comes to drop a bomb in an empty field and send a katyusha..,i do not think it is the same.
Israel drop a bomb in a open field is a kind of warning.
It is a warning to the factions in order to make them stop the Katyusha.
Israel is trying to stop the Katyushas without killing anyone.
One might say that it will not be effective.
Ok. But the 3 AM bomb was a try to stop the Katyushas without loss of life.
In that respect is diferent from the Kassam.
The objective of the Kassam is to kill.
The objective of the 3 AM bomb was to send a message without killing anyone.
My comment made all the more sense since the mindset Layla shows in the post is not exclusive of her.
It is a national mindset.
The Director of the Palestinian Center for Human rights declared palestinians had the right to shoot Israelis.
As long as a director of a Center of Human Rights that is suposed to support human dignity does declare palestiniaans have the right to shoot israelis I do not see how peace can come.

QUOTE
" In his turn, director of the Gaza-based Palestinian Center for Human Rights, Raji Alsurani,
/.../ hinted that the Land Day is a day for the Palestinian people to express their steadfastness on their lands in the face of the Israeli occupation oppression, saying that the Palestinian right to self-determination, declared by the United Nations, has given the Palestinians the right to restore their lands and rights by armed struggle.".

8:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well put Solitario,
Let´s see what comes next!

9:23 PM  
Blogger Zak said...

What do date cookies look like? Whats the Arabic word for them?

9:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Laila -

I've come to your website for the first time, its beautiful, thank you for having it. Please know people all over the world, some of us in the US, were working in solidarity and celebrating land day. I am excited to keep reading your posts.

Jax

9:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Israelis are speaking out ... oddly enough, it's the soldiers who can no longer stand what they do ... breakingthesilence.org

9:37 PM  
Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

Thank`s a lot for the support anonymous

9:49 PM  
Blogger johnie said...

Sol
with regard to the spaces thing I do appreciate everything you say about people making personal attacks on these blogs, I still maintain my comment was a legitimate criticism rather than any personal attack, but hey if you found it offensive I'm sorry and I will try to be more careful in future. With regard to the Raji Alsurani comment, this is extremely interesting and I'm glad you pointed it out, but if it's OK with you and in the interest of keeping these discussions focused I would like to deal with one issue at a time and come back to Alsurani later perhaps?

so moving on

Firstly
you stated that "objective of the 3 AM bomb was to send a message without killing anyone." I agree with you that the intention was not to take life but the thing is, if you drop a large bomb on a playing field in the middle of a densely populated area at 3am you must accept that your 'message' isn't just directed by those involved in launching the rockets it is also directed at thousands of civilians who have nothing whatsoever to with these attacks who live near the area. Now Sol there is a word which is sometimes used to describe a large group of people who live closely together it is COLLECTIVE.

Secondly
you stated: 'Israel drop a bomb in a open field is a kind of warning. It is a warning to the factions in order to make them stop the Katyusha.' the problem is a warning is something you give before something happens. but as you stated earlier this bombing took place in 'response' to the firing of the rockets. Now a commonly used term to describe a non lethal but violent act that takes place after someone has done something wrong (like say smacking a child's bottom when they steal some sweets) is PUNISHMENT.

So my questions to you Sol are very simple,

1. Is COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT of a civilian population a good thing?

2. Should COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT be used in a more widespread fashion?

3. Are there new, and perhaps more effective forms of COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT that Israel hasn't yet tried?

And the most important question of all

4. How can Israel be sure that COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT is fighting terrorism in an effective way?

10:49 PM  
Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

For me your post does not make much sense.
I do not believe the objective of the bomb was to do collective punishement.
The objective of the bomb was not to wake up people or prevent people from sleeping.
The objective of Israel was not punish collectivelly the population of Gaza.
The objective was to send a message to the factions.

1. Is COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT of a civilian population a good thing?

Reply : If such punishement does save innocent lives, yes.

2. Should COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT be used in a more widespread fashion?

I am not an expert on such matters.

3. Are there new, and perhaps more effective forms of COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT that Israel hasn't yet tried?

same answer

4. How can Israel be sure that COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT is fighting terrorism in an effective way?

If in result of a certain policy attacks on civilians decrease it means the policy was sucessefull. ( But I am not a Israel spokesperson either).



A Final word :

The palestinian factions have been doing collective punishement against Israel for years.
A suicide bomb attack is a form of collective punishement since anyone can be attacked and blown up.

This is the last reply to you since just because I anm supportive of Israel I have no obligation to answer every question people ask me.
One of the methods to wear out a fellow is to keep asking him or her question after question.
During the time I posted In the portuguese board I did answer more than 3 thousand questions.
In that board people keep asking questions..,
I do not have to enter such game anymore.
Besides I am writting in a foreign language.
You are free to answer my posts but I am free not to reply.
People seem to feel the urge to reply to my posts but I have no obligation to answer.
I had my share already.
I dont have to be PUNISHED just because I am sympathetic to Israel.
If people are curious about what I think they might take a look at my blog Evil Israel.

:)

1:10 AM  
Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

In the portuguese board I had arguments of 18 hours nonstop, from midnight to 6 PM.
For some reason people feel unconfortable with my ideas but this is not my problem.

1:18 AM  
Blogger Abu Shaar said...

"A Final word"

Promises, promises.

2:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Let us not forget that this is an ordinary Palestinian woman, who is trying to go about her daily buisness, with no ill intentions towards anyone. Just like i'm sure there are many Jewish mothers who would liek to go about their daily business in peace. Why can't both sides see that they are not so different, and if both made concessions and communicated with each other and themselves there may be an end to this!

3:10 AM  
Blogger Shaggydabbydo said...

Hi solitarioh,

'If people are curious about what I think they might take a look at my blog Evil Israel.'


You seem to be flogging Martrydom belts - erm, not thanks, but one may look good on you - go take it for a test run in your back garden.


Regs, Shaggy

3:06 PM  
Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

:)))

Did you notice that the po box is in teheran ? Actually I am portuguese and I live in Portugal.

I thought these martyrdom belts might be popular since many leaders dear to the left actually called other fellows to martyr themselves.

In a televised address Saturday, as Palestinian terrorists launched suicide attacks in Netanya and Jerusalem, Arafat urged Palestinians to "sacrifice themselves as martyrs in jihad (holy war) for Palestine."

03/14/02
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2002/03/14/usat-brigades.htm


Tuesday, April 2, 2002

Over the weekend, Arafat pledged to send millions of martyrs to Jerusalem. In an interview with the Doha-based A-Jazeera satellite channel, Arafat urged Palestinians to participate in what he termed a mission of martyrdom.

"To Jerusalem we march, martyrs by the millions," Arafat said in a chant. "To Jerusalem we march, martyrs by the millions. To Jerusalem we march, martyrs by the millions."

On late Monday, a Palestinian bomber blew himself up in his car in Jerusalem. Israeli authorities said the attacker was on his way to the downtown district when he was stopped by a police officer. At that point, the bomber detonated his explosives, killing the officer.






This is exactly one of the reasons I do not believe many who claim they support human rights.

When it comes to Arafat and the Martyrs Brigades..., they look the other way.
Why ?

I never supported the martyrs but the same cannot be said of many pro palestinian fellows that are keen to criticize Israeli human rights abuses but remain silent when arafat calls millions of his countrymen to blow up.

1:14 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Too bad there's no such thing as a genie or I'd wish all the Israelis and palestinians to switch places. Its not such a bad thing to be forced to walk a mile in anothers shoes. In this case I think the palestinians would get the best of the deal and sure wouldn't want to trade back while the Israelis would get a very quick reality check. On the other hand it might be nice to wish that anyone attempting to harm another person through violent action would get violently sick... Any ideas on which side of the fence would be suffering an epidemic?

5:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Zak,

Date cookies are called cae'k (I think that is how its spelled. Its made with smeed (semolina) and flour with Dates inside the cookie. Its very good & also made with a walnut mixture as well.

Traditionally, Christians make both during the easter holiday as a family event.

7:09 AM  
Blogger johnie said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

4:48 PM  
Blogger johnie said...

Sol
So what you are essentially saying here is that most people who support Human rights for the Palestinians think suicide bombing of Israelis is OK. Is that right Sol you wouldn't be talking about me would you?

let me repeat too you something I said earlier on this page
'Bombing an empty field at 3am is going to be no more effective at ending this conflict than firing a Katusha into israel, they are both mindless and pointless acts of violence.'

let me go a bit further just so you know where I stand:
Any attack which targets civilians carried out by anyone is pointless and unjustified. would you agree with this Sol?

you stated on a previous post 'I would say Israel did human rights violations.., and Arafat took advantage of it to claim palestinians were being slaughtered and victims of Israel.'

would you accept therefore that if Israel did less Human rights abuses it would actually be to their advantage?

5:28 PM  
Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

I answer you with another question : You do criticize the 3 AM Boom.
And how many times did you criticize the palestinian violence ?

As far as I am concerned I did criticize both Israeli and Palestiniuan human rights abuses but that is not the case of most people.

So it seems to me tremendously hipocritical to criticize violence when such violence comes from Israel and stay silent when it comes to the Katyushas ?

Or there is good violence and bad violence depending from who does it ?

This is all the more shocking since the pro palestinian fellows do profess their allegiance towards the human rights .

But most of the times such allegiance is towards the human rights of the palestinians.

When it comes to the Israelis, to hell with them.

Many people pretend they respect the human rights.
Nazis also fight for the human rights of the German People and actually denounced the Barbarism of the allied bombing.
Any attack which targets civilians carried out by anyone is pointless and unjustified. ".
I agree with that but do you ?

How can someone not denounce Arafat that actually called for an holocaust ?

He asked for millions of martyrs wich would mean millions of victims.

I denounce Arafat.
Do you ?

8:21 PM  
Blogger johnie said...

Sol.... What are you talking about?

how many times do i have to keep reposting my own comments before you bother read them.

to repeat I stated:'Bombing an empty field at 3am is going to be no more effective at ending this conflict than firing a Katusha into israel, they are both mindless and pointless acts of violence.'

and somehow on this basis you accuse me of being a hypocrite because I 'criticize violence when such violence comes from Israel and stay silent when it comes to the Katyushas ?'

again I say to you what are you talking about?

again I stated: 'Any attack which targets civilians carried out by anyone is pointless and unjustified.' you respond to this by suggesting that I do not agree with my own words, on what basis Sol?

Attempting to misrepresent my views when they are expressed in very clear terms directly above your post is foolish! and it will make you look foolish if you continue to do it.

9:08 PM  
Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

I just asked a question. Besides these 2 sentences..., did you show sensibility towards the Israeli victims ?

Did you ever denounced anywhere in the web suicide bombings ?
Or Arafat ?

When it comes to me I did criticize Israeli actions.

I did not just wrote 2 or 3 hollow sentences criticizing Israel.

If you check my board you will be able to see that I have a post about the killing done by captain R.

(And I have a second board with israeli human right violations ).

When it comes to you so far what I have seen of criticism of more than a hundred suicide bombers are 3 hollow sentences.

10:26 PM  
Blogger johnie said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

11:06 PM  
Blogger johnie said...

ok Sol one last time, lets try it in capital letters so you can see MY words more clearly

ANY ATTACK WHICH TARGETS CIVILIANS
CARRIED OUT BY ANYONE
IS POINTLESS AND UNJUSTIFIED

Given that a suicide bomber who blows himself up in a market place in israel clearly TARGETS CIVILIANS, it is very obvious from the statement above that I believe his actions are POINTLESS AND UNJUSTIFIED

you can clearly write english to a good standard, which means you are clearly capable of understanding it. Any attempt to pretend that the statement above is ambiguous is pointless, as anyone even with very limited intelligence would be able to understand what these words mean.

All you are doing by continuing to push your belief that I do not condemn these actions is making yourself look very very stupid in front of other people who read your words, is that what you really want Sol?

11:15 PM  
Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

You were not able to make your point.
All you did was shout ( using big caps ) and sugest i might look stupid to other fellows.
In other words : Besides shouting you did start name calling.

:))

As far as I am concerned I have criticised Israel also..,as far as you are concerned you did declare in this argument that you criticize both sides but in practice I have seen nothing ( Besides calling names to Olah and Oleh , calling them the settler duo ).

1:20 AM  
Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

Anyone can claim that is fair and condemns violence. Words are cheap.
Even the more racist fellow on earth does clain he is no racist.
This is obvious.
What counts are deeds and as I did show you I already criticized Israeli actions.
So your claim that you already declared your are fair..., thats your claim.

1:29 AM  
Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

As far as I am aware you have only argued with pro israeli fellows ( Me and Olah ).
This fact certainly says something : Such fact , I am convinced, does indicate you are not as far as you think you are since you only disagree with pro israeli fellows wich means you are more pro palestinian.
This shows probably you do not criticize equally both sides as you claim you did.

1:53 AM  
Blogger johnie said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

3:05 AM  
Blogger johnie said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

3:52 AM  
Blogger johnie said...

Look at your own words sol.....!

'As far as I am concerned I have criticised Israel also..,as far as you are concerned you did declare in this argument that you criticize both sides but in practice I have seen nothing'

If you claim to 'have seen nothing' in what I have written above that provides a clear condemnation of palestinian suicide bombers, then you are willfully blind to the words that appear on the page.

You don't seem capable of providing a rational and intelligent response but instead attempt to misrepresent my words in some vain hope that your criticism of me might appear more credible.

You are not stupid Sol, you can do better than this I'm sure. But as you said yourself 'Words are cheap' and in terms of the discussion on this particular page you have proved this very well.

6:01 AM  
Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

If you were fair ( as you claim you are) , you would realize that some criticism against Israel does not make any sense.
In Sierra Leone horrible crimes were commited; In Chechnya more than 10% of the population got killed. (I am repeating myself ).
These coutries are not as criticized as Israel is.
In Sudan there are hundreds of thousand of people killed and the Sudanese Leader what not object of the half of criticism Sharon was.
And in such a world how do you show your fairness ? You show your fairness being ONE more fellow that does criticize Israel and spends your energy criticizing a small state state that actually was attacked in 1948 , and 73.
It does not make sense.
It does not make sense for a guy to pretend his only worry are the human rights violations and next only attack Israel.
The Nazis also pretended they supported the human rights of the Sudeten.
That is why I sincerely doubt that you are fair.

3:48 PM  
Blogger johnie said...

Oh dear Sol, you do seem to be finding this one a quite tricky, lets recap shall we, maybe then we can get back to the point.

Laila El-Haddad posted an article above which spoke of the distress caused by a large bomb which was dropped at 3am in the morning by an F-16 in a playing field in Gaza city, which as we both know has a very dense civilian population.

You Sol then correctly pointed out that this attack was in response to the firing of a katyusha rocket. You stating that 'As it does happen often the palestinians seem unable to make a relationship between their own attacks and the Israeli response' you then went on to say 'Israel drop a bomb in a open field is a kind of warning. It is a warning to the factions in order to make them stop the Katyusha.'

I then pointed out that since the attack was in response to the rockets it couldn't be described as a warning but could much better be described as a punishment, and that since it was aimed at the civilian population it was therefore,

COLLECTIVELY PUNISHING the CIVILIAN POPULATION for the katyusha Rocket attacks

just as in the same way, shelling empty fields in northern gaza and flying aircraft at low altitude and high speeds to create create sonic booms over gaza city are all methods of,

COLLECTIVELY PUNISHING the CIVILIAN POPULATION for the actions of militants

When I asked you if you thought COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT was a good thing, your reply was: 'If such punishement does save innocent lives, yes.' Well there is to my knowledge no evidence that exists to suggest COLLECTIVELY PUNISHING the CIVILIAN POPULATION of gaza has in fact ever saved any innocent lives at all. It has however caused a great deal of distress to innocent people created a great deal of anger towards Israel.

What it comes down to in the end is this Sol

I, fully condemn any attack by any palestinian militant which targets any civilian.

You, support the israeli government's practice of COLLECTIVELY PUNISHING the CIVILIAN POPULATION of gaza without any evidence to suggest that it is saving israeli lives, and without any moral or ethical justification for the suffering which is inflicted as a result.

Basically Sol you just don't care, but your not honest or brave enough to admit it.


Now if you choose to respond to this with a big rant about Chechnya, Sierra Leone, the sudan or some other unrelated issue thats fine, but the only thing you will be doing is running away from a simple issue that you lack the courage to face up to.

6:59 PM  
Blogger Shaggydabbydo said...

Hi Sol,

What critizism exactly is not fair against Israel?

You seem to imply that if a.n.other country does or has committed acts worse than Israel (iyv), that Israel should not be brought up in critical conversation.

If this is the case, I suggest to you it is simply a mechanism to deflect any critisism of Israel, but then, you know this.

I would even go as far as to say that one could, as many do, critisize countries that are 'similar', ie, comparing a 'democratic' country with another 'democratic' country - I think you can see where I'm going here.

HTH

Regs, Shaggy

7:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I watched the movie "Paradise Now" last night. It was a very good movie, make you sad for the plight of the Palestinians, I do not agree with suicide bombings but can sympathize with the desperation which the Palestinians are living with. Occupation is not the answer for anyone!!

8:05 PM  
Anonymous body building said...

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4:42 PM  

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