Monday, March 20, 2006

your love gives me such a thrill, but your love won't pay my bills...I want money!

Six people were wounded today (two in a separate incident) in fighting in Gaza between Palestinian police and gunmen demanding jobs and unpaid wages.

The gunmen blocked off the main road leading to the Erez terminal-used mainly by Palestinian officials and VIPs-and exchanged fire with security forces in a two-hour long battle. Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas's motorcade was on its way to Tel Aviv at the time for a follow-up meeting with Americans, Egyptians, Europeans, and Israelis on the humanitarian situation in Gaza.

They then took the battle to Gaza City near where I live, shooting at a police station and in front of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. Machine gun fire echoed throughout the city as police sirens wailed up and down the streets.

The gunmen belong mainly to Fatah's al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, many who are demanding to be absorbed into an alrady boated and unsustainable security apparatus (the PA was running training wokrshops for some of the Brigade members, according two guys I overhead talking in an elevator last week. "But it will be a major problem. They just don't realize how many of us they are" one said). Some were part of a group hired into the security forces just before Hamas took power, and have not yet recieved their wages, as I reported in a story for the Guardian today.

The wage fears are not limited to security forces, which many argue do need to be streamlined anyway - municipality workers have been on strike for two days protesting late wages. Uncollected rubbish has piled up throughout the city, with many neighbourhoods opting to burn it to prevent rats from nesting.

The cash-strapped authority is finding it increasingly difficult to pay the salaries of the about 130, 000 people it employs as is-up to 70,000 of them security personnel, especially in the face of rising international pressure on the newly-elected Hamas government.

All of this is happening at a time that Gaza faces an unprecedented food shortage (Israel briefly reopened al-Mintar to allow trucks to deliver food today, only to close it again an hour later-in line with Weisglas's "diet but dont' kill" policy) , and as Gaza's economy is losing about $600,000 a day because of the closure, which has forced some farmers to feed their rotting vegetables to goats, while others are reduced to selling what remains of their marked-for-export produce in bulk on donkey carts in the city, charging only £1 for 20 kg of tomatoes on the vine.

Security will suffer in the long term: James Wolfensohn, the international community's envoy, recently warned that the Palestinian Authority could face imminent collapse unless aid was continued, leading to more violence and chaos.

As director of the UN's Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs David Shearer told me last week, if the money for the security forces payroll runs out there will be 70,000 men running around Gaza, unable to feed their families, most of them armed, and approximately 1 million Palestinians without a bread winner.

These men, along with the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades members, will constitute one of the biggest challenges for the upcoming government-something I wrote about in an feature story for Aljazeera a few weeks back that hits on this very issue. The brigades, along with Islamic Jihad and the Marxist PFLP, are responsible for the bulk of rocket attacks against Israel and for kidnappings of foreigners, not Hamas.

They are loose cannons, used to the days of quick and easy payoffs, and are now demanding to be absorbed into an already bloated and unsustainable security apparatus "or else". Along with Israeli moves and western aid cuts, their actions threaten to destabilize the nascent Palestinian government before it even gets started.

How Hamas will deal with such threats remains to be seen, especially in the face of increasing international pressure and isolation. As the song says, "you're love gives me such a thrill, but you're love won't pay my bills-I want money!"

Hear is my interview with the BBC's World Update (click on "audio").


Anonymous johnie clayton said...

Laila in audio we like, they should have you on the BBC 'Today' programe...

11:51 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said... question is a serious one...The sibling rivalry between the two sons of Abraham does not just affect his descendants. It affects all of us on this planet. I am not listening to the politicains on either side because they talk out of both sides of their mouths and their actions don't back up their words in any case...I want to know from people just like ordinary mom who loves her family, her friends and her countrymen.

"Can you tell me what the Palestinians want?

Can you tell me what the Israelis want?

I have been trying to understand for years but just get more and more confused. Killing and killing and killing. Where does it get any of you?"

12:15 AM  
Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

Such as shame that your previous government cared more about putting money into their own pockets and buying villas and expensive cars than caring for their people. It's such shame that your currently elected government cares more about killing all the Jews and destroying Israel than caring for their own people. I hope your government will get their act together soon, so that you and your fellow citizens can live in peace and prosperity.

12:55 AM  
Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

People are living the legacy of the Al Aqsa Intifadah and Arafat rule.
Since 94 there is self Rule in Gaza.
The idea was that some parts of Gaza and west bank became autonomous and ultimately a state would be created in parts of palestine.
The challenge was enourmous.., since in order to built the institutions of a state peace was necessary.

Jobs are not created if peace does not exist.

Arafat instead of building peace , apealled for the Jhiad, Intifada against Israel.

Arafat prepared people for war.
Want the proof ?

August 4 2000 , New York Times Article , 50 days BEFORE sharon visit to the Temple Mount , Noble Sanctuary

Palestinian Summer Camp Offers the Games of War

"Young Palestinians demonstrate their ability to handle firearms by assembling Kalashnikov rifles. In the summer camps around Nablus, the mood is a throwback to an earlier era in Palestinian-Israeli relations."
It is summer camp time for 25,000 Palestinian teenagers, and strikingly unusual camps they are, too. As run by the men who handle psychological warfare for Yasir Arafat, the Palestinian leader, they allow no horsing around in the dorm, no fun-in-the-sun by a cool clear lake, no rousing sing-alongs beside a roaring campfire.
Instead, there is the chance to stage a mock kidnapping of an Israeli leader by masked Palestinian commandos, ending with the Israeli's bodyguards sprawled dead on the ground. Next, there is the mock attack on an Israeli military post, ending with a sentry being grabbed by the neck and fatally stabbed. Finally, there is the opportunity to excel in stripping and reassembling a real Kalashnikov rifle.

In the summer of the latest Camp David talks, a summer that was supposed to produce a final peace settlement between Israel and its Palestinian adversaries, the Palestinians' idea of a teenage boys' camp is a reminder of how deep old enmities run. At 90 two- and three-week camps on the West Bank and in the Gaza Strip, youths from towns and villages already ceded to Israel by Mr. Arafat's Palestinian Authority are learning the arts of kidnapping, ambushing and using assault weapons.

"As President Arafat says, this is the generation that will plant the Palestinian flag on the walls of Jerusalem," said Dr. Wajieh Affouneh, a 49-year-old dental school graduate who joined Mr. Arafat's Fatah organization in a refugee camp. In the 1970's and 80's, he participated, according to other aides, in some of the operations that made the Palestinian cause synonymous with attacks on Israeli and other targets. Dr. Affouneh is now a top man in the "political guidance" department of Mr. Arafat's National Security Forces, the armed police unit permitted under the Oslo accords.

In the camps around this biblical town 35 miles north of Jerusalem, the mood is a throwback to the days before Mr. Arafat joined Israeli leaders in the peacemaking effort that faltered last week at Camp David, mainly over the future of Jerusalem.

Since the current cycle of talks began in Oslo in 1993, both sides have made generous use of the tactics of bluff and threat, and have still made impressive strides toward peace. But the display today in the yard of what was once a notorious Israeli prison seemed more than old-time propaganda, even if there was an element of that. What the youths and their mentors had prepared for a graduation parade on Thursday appeared to a visitor to be steeped more in the Palestinian mind-set of the 1970's than the conciliatory postures of today.

In the mock kidnapping, an Israeli official walked across the old prison yard surrounded by eagle-eyed security men. Suddenly a reporter approached with a tape recorder. The target stopped, only to be grabbed by the reporter, now flourishing an imitation pistol. As the target was dragged off, other mock kidnappers shot seven of the bodyguards dead.

For 1,000 Palestinian youngsters standing in neatly ordered platoons, cheering, the exercise seemed like ripping good stuff.

Afterward, many predicted that their generation would someday take up arms against Israel over Jerusalem. At indoctrination sessions in the camps, the youths have been told that Mr. Arafat, at Camp David, rejected American proposals that would have given the Palestinian Authority a foothold in parts of Jerusalem, demanding instead that Israel surrender the entire eastern half of the city it seized in 1967.

Fikri Fouad, a 15-year-old village boy, said Palestinians had learned during the Oslo peace effort to live with a split view of Israelis -- "as people that we can make peace with, but still our enemies, too." He added: "If we can get Jerusalem without weapons, it is better. But if there is a need to liberate Jerusalem with weapons, we will be ready for that."

Other youths offered opinions that would be grist for the mill of Israeli politicians like Ariel Sharon, the hawkish former general who has accused Prime Minister Ehud Barak of endangering Israel with his acceptance of American proposals on Jerusalem. At a news conference on Tuesday, Mr. Sharon said any Palestinian foothold in the city would encourage Mr. Arafat to press the "real" Palestinian goal of recovering Tel Aviv and Haifa, along with the rest of Israel.

Suleiman Nubaim, 16, said the Camp David talks had given new relevance to what he and his friends had been taught about the exploits of the freedom fighters, or "fedayeen," the name taken by Palestinian guerrillas of the pre-Oslo period. Like many youths, he said he wanted to join the Palestinian forces.

"I want my country to be free," he said. "It's been my dream since I was a small boy."

Asked how he defined Palestinian freedom, he said it included having Jerusalem, and then the rest of Israel. "As long as Israel occupies any part of our land, in Tel Aviv or Jaffa or Haifa," he said, "we have not liberated our homeland."

Although the camps have been run for five years with some weapons training, it is only this summer that they have caused noticeable controversy in Israel. Since Camp David, Lt. Gen. Shaul Mofaz, the Israeli Army chief of staff, has cited the training in the summer camps as evidence of the risks of a new Palestinian upheaval. Israeli officials have said security has been tightened all across the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, especially near the 145 Jewish settlements that have been the cause of much Palestinian ire.

Mr. Affouneh, the Arafat aide who oversees the Nablus camps, said weapons training was only a small part of a wider program that included inculcating the benefits of discipline and physical fitness, and teaching the youths about the history of Palestine before and since 1948, including the armed struggle led by Mr. Arafat. "We joined the Palestinian national movement when we were their age," he said, referring to the men who now lead the Palestinian Authority, "and we are creating a continuum between our generation and theirs."

In any case, he said, weapons used in the camps -- judging by the graduation rehearsal, American-made Smith & Wesson revolvers in addition to the Kalashnikovs -- were "legitimate" under the Oslo accords.

These allowed Mr. Arafat to establish an armed police force but denied him the right to acquire heavy weapons. In practice, even Palestinian officials admit that the Russian mafia, with the foothold it has gained in Israeli life, is smuggling an enormous number of rifles and other small arms into Palestinian-controlled areas.

Dr. Affouneh said Israeli alarm at the weapons training was hypocritical, since Israel was one of the world's most heavily-armed countries. "Israel is a country with nuclear weapons, whereas we have no air force, no tanks, and no arms industry," he said.

"All we have is a small number of rifles. And even today, just a few miles from here, Jewish settlers are being encouraged by the Israeli government to build up their arms stockpiles. Tell me, who are the victims, and who are the victimizers?"

Other officials noted that recent Israeli news reports had identified a hitherto-secret Israeli Army training camp where troops rehearse storming a mock Palestinian village being used as a base for attacks on Israelis. What's good for Israel, the Palestinians seemed to be saying, is good for Palestinians.

Dr. Affouneh drew a closer parallel, saying that a part of the Zionist movement that survived the transition to Israeli statehood was Gdudei Noar, or Gadna, a corps that introduces tens of thousands of Israeli teenagers to army life. In recent years, the organization has shifted from weapons familiarity to sports, physical fitness and camping, but Dr. Affouneh said the Palestinian summer camps were essentially the same.

"We hope that we will achieve our rights through negotiations, so that summer camps like these will cease to exist," he said. "There is nothing we want more than a full and genuine peace, including Jerusalem, which would allow us to end the weapons-training and concentrate instead on teaching our young people about computers, and swimming and other recreations. That has always been our hope."

© New York Times 2000

Arafat prepared the palestinians youths for war not for peace.

Hamas also run education camps like these in Gaza.

Sharon is in coma. Arafat is no more.
The Palestinians (And Israelis) are living with the Intifadah legacy

2:01 AM  
Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

What is a tragedy is that palestinians were educated in a culture of war against Israel.

In my opinion the problem goes back to the first Intifadah.

Many palestinians died and the repression was very harsh.

Rabin realized that there was a big problem with the palestinians.

(I think hamas was on the rise ).

So Rabin had the idea to handle the palestinian cities to Arafat.

Arafat would be the one who would deal with the palestinians and bring peace.

As Sharon and others said at the time Rabin was wrong. Rabin offered the palestinian cities to the smartest terrorist around - Yasser Arafat.

The Oslo years ( 1995 , 2000 ) were actually a run to the first oslo war, the Intifadah Al Aqsa.

Israel did expand the setlements in order to be able to get some parts of the west bank in the final setlement with the palestinians that should take place in 1999.

Arafat prepared the palestinian people for the showdown with Israel that would take place in 99.

In case Arafat would not be able to get what he wanted at the negotiation table.., the palestinian general ( the children with the stones ) would be prepared to start another Intifadah, another conflict.

Both sides ( Israel and the palestinians) prepare for the showdown.

The showdown came in 2000 . Arafat lauched the Intifadah Al Aqsa.

July 2000 the palestinian Authority was teaching children how to shoot.

july 13 2000

Palestinians train to fight in case peace fails

Nidal Al Mughrabi GAZA

Sixteen-year-old Akram Soboh wrestled an Israeli soldier to the ground and then slit his throat with a knife.

The soldier was not harmed. Nor was he an Israeli. He was a Palestinian teenager taking part in a training exercise for 150 youths at a refugee camp in the southern Gaza Strip.

If Palestinian President Yasser Arafat and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak fail to forge a peace treaty at a crucial summit in the United States, Soboh might be doing it for real.

Israeli and Palestinian officials warn that if the summit fails, the region might be consumed by violence much worse than the seven-year-long Palestinian Intifada, or uprising, which began in 1987 against Israel's military occupation of the Gaza Strip and West Bank.

Then, angry youngsters threw stones at Israeli troops armed with automatic weapons in a one-sided struggle that pushed the Palestinian

question back into the world's headlines.

"It will be a different kind of Intifada. Not only will we use stones, but weapons too," Soboh said.

At the start of the two-month course, Soboh and other boys, some as young as 10, learned how to handle AK-47 automatic rifles, fight with knives and throw makeshift fire-bombs.

Chanting "long live Palestine, let Israel die," some of the boys crawled on their bellies under a wire fence which had been set on fire, while an instructor shot live rounds into the dust.

The boys also learned how to disarm Israeli soldiers and practiced capturing a Jewish settlement. The "settlement," a wooden hut with an Israeli flag flying over it, was conquered when some of the boys threw Molotov cocktails while others attacked from the rear.

Arafat's Fatah faction organized the training to prepare youngsters for the sort of clashes with Israelis which might erupt if the two sides are unable to meet a September deadline to resolve highly-charged disputes such as the fate of Jerusalem.

"We will be behind President Arafat towards peace or towards war," Soboh told Reuters.

Soboh, like so many of the 3.6 million Palestinian refugees living in camps in Gaza, the West Bank and in exile beyond, hopes the talks will lead to the establishment of a Palestinian state – along with the return of the refugees and their descendants forced to flee their villages in 1948 when Israel was established.

Arafat has said he will declare an independent Palestinian state this year, regardless of whether or not a deal has been struck.

Israeli officials say that if Arafat unilaterally declares a state then Israel too would take unilateral steps – such as annexing parts of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Military analysts warn of violence if this happens.

"We are training them to be ready for the

declaration of a state. They should be prepared for self-defense if a confrontation is imposed on them," said one of the instructors, Abdel Raouf Barbakh, a leading Fatah activist.

Sharon was blamed for the intifadah but as this Reuters news article shows the Intifadah was being prepared by Arafat long before Sharon visited the Temple Mount.

The Arafat plan was simple : To engulf the west bank and Gaza in chaos and then call the UN to save the palestinians.

Just the year before the plan had worked in Kosovo.

A anti serbian guerrilla warfare intensified against the serbians..., NATO gave an ultimatum to the serbs to stop the bloodshed..,and next NATO intervened and the UN moved to kosovo.

Arafat gamble was to do the same in palestine.
He failed.

Now palestine has to live with his legacy, the Intifadah Legacy.

3:37 AM  
Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

Just for fun

How to fight unemployment.

Open in new browser

8:03 AM  
Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

solitarioh, what an absolutely brilliant and, again, succint and well put argument. Well done again!

1:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Laila,

I enjoy reading your blog, it's good to get a human perspective on events in Gaza, away from the rhetoric of the various organisations.

I can't see things in Gaza improving anytime soon - for the rest of the world (the non-Muslim parts), the election of a militant Islamic group seems like a massive step backwards, or at least choosing to go down a path that will only lead to conflict with all other societies.

I don't know if you've seen the case of Abdul Rahman in Afghanistan - where the government prosecutor is seeking his death for converting to Christianity.

Christians around the world have grown tired of funding groups, regimes and ideologies who use the funds to perpetrate evil, as in this instance.

The Rahman case isn't Hamas' fault - but if this really is true face of Islam: death for anyone persuing their conscience, then people will increasingly want to separate themselves from Muslims and their ideology. Hamas, and the Palestinans (both Muslim and Christian) will suffer as a result.

3:18 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Olah & solitarioh2005, Why are you on this blog??? Just to prove what absolute asses you are? or how superior the Jews are to Palestinians?? talk about occupation, poor Laila has to live it on a daily basis & now she has to listen to you guys occupying her page!!!!

Leave her alone!!

H - an Israeli with a heart!!

6:02 PM  
Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

7:49 PM  
Blogger Adrian said...

I would have loved to listen but all I get is the general page. Anything else?

7:59 PM  
Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

Olah & solitarioh2005, Why are you on this blog??? Just to prove what absolute asses you are?

My name is Peter.
In a portuguese board in wich I used to post the portuguese fellows often wrote : " Peter worst than Hitler".
To call me an " ass " is therefore a compliment, compared with what other people did call me.
One thing I learned in the Portuguese Board : Usually people transfer to others they own characteristics.
A liar thinks everyone is a liar and does call other people liars, by instance.
Maybe you did not noticed but I have never called names to anyone In your first post adressed to me and Olah you did sugest we were "Asses".

When it comes to your sentence :

Why are you on this blog ? Just to proove /../ how superior the Jews are to Palestinians?? does not make sense because I am not a Jew .
There is nothing unusual about you.
In blogs and message boards some people argue.
Other people can`t help insulting others.
It is as simple as that.

8:03 PM  
Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

sol, or may I call you peter?, don't bother answering people like anon. As, I've said earlier, people like that use those kinds of methods of attack because they have nothing substantial to say or add. I also don't believe that this person is an Israeli, only because it seems like a cheap ploy to add to the "validity" of his/her statement. Once again, pathetic.

10:24 PM  
Blogger solitarioh2005 said...

Thanks for your comment :)

11:44 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Palestinians can live without EU aid: finance minister designate Tue Mar 21, 6:36 AM ET

The Palestinian territories could survive without aid from the European Union and would find funding elsewhere if necessary, the German press reported the Palestinian finance minister designate as saying.

If the EU makes good on recent threats to suspend funding to the Palestinian territories "the consequences will be serious but not catastrophic", minister designate Omar Abdul Razeq told the Financial Times Deutschland.

"We can also survive without them," added the Hamas official, who was named on Sunday as part of a cabinet dominated by members of the militant Islamic group that won resounding victory in the Palestinian election in January.

Razeq, who was until recently in Israeli detention, said the Palestinians could turn to other possible sources of funding, including the Arab states. They were also ready to accept aid from Iran, he said, adding: "I see no problem with this as long as it is not tied to conditions."

The 25-nation EU is by far the biggest donor to the Palestinians, with annual contributions of about 500 million euros (600 million dollars).

But the bloc has made future help conditional on the new cabinet recognising Israel's right to exist, forswearing violence and accepting previously reached accords.

The EU warned Hamas on Monday that it stood at a crossroads but held off from cutting aid to the poverty-stricken Palestinian territories until Hamas's political programme became clear.

Razeq said Hamas was convinced that the EU would soon change its stance and would make no concessions "without getting something in return".


11:47 AM  
Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

Of course, Hamas was right. It's not surprising in the slightest that the EU has decided to keep giving money to the Palestinian government and with no conditions attached. Also, if Hamas thinks that they'll replace the money with-held by other governments with that given by their Arab/Muslim brothers, they're delluding themselves. Haven't seen any of them come forward to help in a real substantial way.

4:19 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Olah & "Peter",
You are what you are, all you have to do is read your opinions & bombardments of Laila's board proves that I am right. I find it interesting that Olah has to question whether I am an Israeli or not, does he think all Israelis are unsympathetic to Palestinians? Then your head is buried in the sand and will not accept other opinions! and bytw, I am an Israeli citizen & hold an Israeli passport.


4:38 PM  
Anonymous patti said...

Don't mind "H" everyone--another LWF (left-wing fascist) who feels it is okay to censor anyone who doesn't agree with him...fortunately, the rest of us, including the blogger herself, have a little more tolerance for disparate points of view. Shut up and read, H. Start your own blog if you want to censor people's opinions.

9:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

There are lots of places in the world where hunger is never satisfied and a bowl of good rice and beans - and clean water -is never taken for granted. Milk powder is all there is. Luxuries are never seen.

I do not understand the demand for money. No one really wants to give anymore and everyone expects everything. And for what reason? We would rather steal than work. I do not think we can, or should, expect people we do not know or agree with to fund us and feed us. We should at least not demand it. And be thankful if we get it. Who owes us anything that we do not first owe ourself. Dignity and honesty has gone out of fashion to save face. We do not care anymore. It is all around the world today. Battling over power is as old as Time. Time will tell who is the more decent.

The demand for money? Who deserves to be given aid, and why, is one big question, especially because of their record of use and anti-west but I'll take your money theology. Humanitarian aid to help people is one thing -saying the West must fund the goverment is another. There are plenty of war torn countries in this world in desperate conditions. Some alot far worse of.

10:41 PM  
Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

anon H, there are plenty of Israeli who are sympathetic to the Palestinians. Unless I'm mistaken, all Israelis are human and have a heart. So, spare me with the pseudo-lecture. Secondly, why would you go out of your way to point out that you're Israeli if not to use it as a ploy to strengthen your "argument"? Also, a very good way that I know you're not Israeli is the fact that you don't know Hebrew. Good try, though. Better luck next time.

Anon (10:41 PM), good points.

12:58 AM  
Blogger Abu Shaar said...

What do Israelis want? They want the Arabs to go someplace else:

"Sixty-eight percent of Israeli Jews would refuse to live in the same apartment building as an Israeli Arab, according to the results of an annual poll released Wednesday by the Center for the Struggle Against Racism.

The "Index of Racism Towards Arab Palestinian Citizens of the State of Israel," conducted by Geocartographia, revealed only 26 percent of Jews in Israel would agree to live with Arab neighbors in the same building.

Forty-six percent of Jews would refuse to allow an Arab to visit their home while 50 percent would welcome an Arab visitor. Forty-one percent of Jewish support the segregation of Jews and Arabs in places of recreation and 52 percent of such Jews would oppose such a move.

"'Racism is becoming mainstream. When people talk about transfer or about Arabs as a demographic time-bomb, no one raises their voice against such statements. This is a worrisome phenomenon,' Bachar Ouda, director of the Center for the Struggle Against Racism, said on Tuesday"

2:20 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

abu shaar--you wouldn't care to explore the fact that this attitude towards Arabs hasn't always existed, according to studies, but has grown among the largely "Arab Jews" who were thrown out of their countries by Egypt, Iraq, Libya, etc and such feelings have spread from that source to the general population since the Second Intifada and the its reign of terror? Nothing in this region exists in a vacuum, and while Jewish racism is as abhorent as Arab racism, you need to see it in context.

2:52 AM  
Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

abu shaar, there's this old saying: "Statistics never lie, and liars use statistics." First of all, the link you gave doesn't work. Can you please provide one that does. I tried clicking on it, but there was no result. Also, since I can't read the study and don't know its accuracy and context, I can't make any comments on it. There are just too many questions that need to be answered first. But, Haaretz is known to be a far left-wing paper. Many of their sources for similar studied and stories have been researched and found to contain many statistical and factual flaws. So, I would really need to see the study before anything else could be said. Of course, off the bat, it looks really bad, but it's only after looking at it closely that we can gain a better picture. Also, I'm sure that it has been done, but have you looked at studies concerning Arab racism toward

Anon, you are absolutely correct in your assessment. This situation does NOT exist within a vacuum, and all of these polls and statistics really need to be looked at closely before they can really be quantified.

2:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

this is where your ignorance comes in!! are you aware that not all israelis are jews?????

5:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think we're all well aware that 20% of the Israeli population is Arab, spread among Christian and Muslim and Bahai and Druse, Bedouin,etc. We are also aware the university professors, doctors, scientists, jurists and politicians come from the Arab sector. We are also aware that one of the judges of the Israel Supreme Court is Arab. So what's your point? Unless it is that despite the fears and prejudices of Israeli Jews, Israeli Arabs get the same voting rights, the same social benefits, same schooling and job opportunities as Jews, unlike any other Middle Eastern country which closes Jews out entirely.

That's not to whitewash discrimination--but it isn't discrimination against Arabs only--it is discrimination of lighter skinned people against darker skinned people, so you find Ashkenazi Jews discriminating against Yeminite Jews, just as you find Circassians discriminating against Bedouin. And skin-color-discrimination is a battle we fight all over the globe--it's not an Israeli problem, in case you hadn't noticed.

6:28 PM  
Blogger Abu Shaar said...

People would put me in a loony bin if I suggested the American constitution should have in its preamble that the US is a white Christian state, that the government should have separate offices for black affairs and the black villages.

What amazes me is the number of Americans who emigrate to Israel because they prefer living in an apartheid state.

7:32 PM  
Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

What amazes me is that people throw around these emtionally charged phrases like "apartheid" and "colonialist" and have absolutely no idea what they actually mean.

P.S. anon (5:22 PM), I sense your sarcasm. Very nice. I have stated more than twice on the fact that more than 20% of the Israeli population is NOT Jewish. But, thanks for pointing it out again. You have cured me of my ignorance. I didn't know this fact. Thank you.

11:41 PM  
Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

Oh yeah, throwing out statements like that are also a nice attempt to use the bait and switch ploy. You didn't answer any of my questions and tried to change the subject using "apartheid" claims. Nice try.

11:43 PM  
Anonymous kimmy said...

After 5 years travelling NA as a hippie I have realised that there is no colour, there is no religion that is right. We are all on this world to co-excist. The Bible says that "God is all forgiving". The Qu'ran has the same quote. WTF is the problem?
Isreal is compounding the problem by using Zionism as their argument.
Zionism is the radical view of Judaeism. Just like Bush using Christianism as his reason for attacking Iraq.
Keep lying and attacking everyone and soon everyone will believe you.
Keep using anon and you will be just another person who is afraid to reveal their identity because of who you really are. Another Zionist.
The Palestinians are the Jews of this century. With a twist. The Zionists are doing the persecuting.

6:12 AM  
Blogger Olah Chadasha said...

Oh, OK, kimmy, I get you now. You don't believe that any war is just, right? You don't believe that there is nothing worth fighting or dying for? You read the hippie book of religions. You don't really have any idea what any of them, but you've got a pamphlet or two. You have absolutely no idea what Zionism means. You have no idea what Judaism is. You believe teh Zionists, ie Jews, are evil because they simply want to live without the fear of persecution and being slaughtered. The Palestinian Arabs were killing Jews before there was ever such a thing as Zionism. Did you know that little tid-bit of information? Was that written in your little pamphlet? Do you believe that this problem will be solved if we all just smoked another peace pipe and gave eachother one big hug?

2:26 PM  
Anonymous kimmy said...

Boy do you have a twisted view of my views. You say anything to make your views.
All I said was in the 60ties we viewed the actual truth was elusive. You are trying to bend the truth in your way. You are trying to defend the Israeli view of point.
The Palestinian view of point doesn't excist in your vocabulary.
Judaeism is not the problem. Islam is not the problem.
Zionism is the problem. You defend Zionism, but you use it as a crutch. Zionism is the root cause of the problem and you don't even realise it.
Zionism is what will remove Pres. Bush after the next election. And it will probably remove support of your occupation of Palestien in the near future.
An update of my personality- I am a male.

4:06 AM  
Anonymous kimmy said...

Bobsy twins,
Don't talk to me if you are going to rehash the same old bullshit. Israel is right.
The Palestinians are wrong.
The news is hidden from us over here.
the news is just onesided. The news I read over on other web sites tells me you might be wrong.
I don't question it others than there is two sides to the story.
You have made me lean over to the other side because you have repeated the zionist side.

5:27 AM  

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