Monday, April 17, 2006

Palestinians commemorate Prisoners Day, as all hell breaks loose

I'm very tired so instead of posting something on how all hells break loose here between one second and the next, and how just when you say to yourself-well how about that, only 20 shells today! and no gunbattles between bickering testosterone charged gunmen with nothing better to do! and no suicide bombings!...well..needless to say, things have a way of turning very bad, very quickly here. 9 killed in Tel Aviv, another Palestinian boy killed in Beit Lahiya by Israeli shelling (that makes 16 since the start of the year)... and I just heard an explosion near my house...


instead, I'm going to talk about commemorations of Palestinian Prisoners Day (yes, we have so many "days"), and then go to sleep, because God knows we ALL need sleep

Thousands of Palestinians-mothers, sisters, daughters, sons-from all different factions filled the streets of Gaza City today to commemorate Palestinian Prisoner's Day-April 17.

Palestinians marched through the streets of Gaza to the Palestinian Legislative Council, carrying pictures of their imprisoned family members and in some cases symbolically tying their hands together with chains. They called on Palestinian parliament members and ministers, human rights organizations and the world community to make the release of the prisoners a top priority.

The parliament convened a special session to address the plight of the prisoners today.

One of the demonstrators, 27-year-old Leila Dabbagh, had not seen her fiancé who is being held in an Israeli jail, for 5 years. They got legally married, but had not yet consumated the marriage, at the time of his imprisonment.

Others are able to see their detained loved ones through the Red Cross, only by glass partitions. Extended family members cannot go however. One women wept as she told me she had not seen her only nephew in 18 years. Most of those detained are very young. Children grow up without ever really knowing their fathers.

The issue of the prisoners is a uniting factor, a common denominator amongst Palestinians.

Some 8000 Palestinians are being held in Israeli prisons or detention centers by the Israeli army, including 370 minors and 103 Palestinian women, according to the Palestinian prisoner's rights and support group, Addammeer.

Over 750 are held without charge or trial.

The overwhelming majority of Palestinian prisoners are regarded as political captives who have been arbitrarily imprisoned or detained under the broad banner of "security", according to the Israeli human rights group B'tselem.

"If these same standards were applied inside Israel, half of the Likud party would be in administrative detention," noted the group in a report.

Palestinians have been subjected to the highest rate of incarceration in the world-since the beginning of the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories in 1967, over 650,000 Palestinians have been detained by Israel-constituting some 20% of the total Palestinian population, and 40% of all Palestinian men.

According to Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, and Btselem, their conditions of detention are extremely poor, with many prisoners suffering from medical negligence, routine beatings, position torture and strip searches.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

I read yor comments.
Just a suggestion from a supporter in Canada.
Keep the children out of your protests. This infuriates people over here. It proves that you use children in everything including terrorism.
Enforce the political prisnor part because that is everything the west is against.
The louder you yell, the more the west says you are lying.
Bring in outside observers from independant countries and ensure their safety. This will help to prove to everyone of your plight.
The more that the Israelis do and the more independent viewers see, will help your cause.
Zionism can't win if the Israelis see what is actually is happening.
I'm using anon because your login could leave me vulnerable to false identity theft. It has happened before.

5:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Assalamu alykum

ahhh what to say
I don't live there, never even been there
but my daughter is 1/2 Palestinian, bint gazaweeyah actually

I get sick every time I read blogs or hear word of mouth..there is always a hope, as irrational as it may seem, that the shelling has stopped, that the harassment has stopped, even for one just brief moment..

so we are with you, even if it is poor words of comfort and bitter tears

your sister
p.s. your yousef is beautiful by the way mashallah

5:51 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I totallt agree. The primary benefit of breast milk is nutritional. Human milk contains just the right amount of fatty acids, lactose, water, and amino acids for human digestion, brain development, and growth.

Cow's milk contains a different type of protein than breast milk. This is good for calves, but human infants can have difficulty digesting it. Bottle-fed infants tend to be fatter than breast-fed infants, but not necessarily healthier.

Breast-fed babies have fewer illnesses because human milk transfers to the infant a mother's antibodies to disease. About 80 percent of the cells in breast milk are macrophages, cells that kill bacteria, fungi and viruses. Breast-fed babies are protected, in varying degrees, from a number of illnesses, including pneumonia, botulism, bronchitis, staphylococcal infections, influenza, ear infections, and German measles. Furthermore, mothers produce antibodies to whatever disease is present in their environment,You can follow the adventures of these schoolgirl tramps as they lose their virginity, experience anal for the first time making, their milk custom-designed to fight the diseases their babies are exposed to as well.
Great site, Laila

6:10 AM  
Blogger Moses said...

The problem isn't children in protests, is it?
Are these as infuriating? Or these?

Palestinians have been asking for UN or US peacekeepers for a long time, but the Israeli governments have said, no, thanks, we can handle our Palestinian problem on our own. And the Israeli government routinely deports international observers and human rights workers who come to document abuses.

8:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hang in there Laila ... I'm sending you and your family a lot of strength!! It is MORE than sickening and I feel terrible about what's happening! The comments of the Canadian supporter are very good ... here in Germany people feel similar, especially concerning the children - and observer part!! I'll get back to you on that ...
Doesn't the last "anonymous" (06:56) sound like SHLEMAZL? I have such a hunch ...

8:54 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What did the nine people in Tel Aviv die from? Over-indulgence in fast-food?

12:24 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

a dracul,

You're ranting rather than discussing. The British "mercenaries" withdrew "so the Jews could come in and do what they liked unobserved?"

The vulgar anti-Semitism in that line disqualifies you as an observer. Israel's Parliament now has 10 MKs from Arab parties plus additional Arab & Druze MKs, and many Druze soldiers; the "Jews" include many who do not support Israel in any way.

What actually happened is that the British and US withdrew their observers because the PA refused to meet its obligations regarding the detention of the captives and protection of the observers. The observers left because the PA left their lives in danger. Furthermore, the US and British governments both warned the PA in advance that this would be the result if the PA failed to act to protect the observers' lives. The PA, as usual, failed to act in support of peace and security.

But, also as usual, supporters of the PA must let no truth go undistorted, for the truth speaks with a clear voice as to who is pursuing peace and who is pursuing war.

6:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Islamic Jihad took responsibility for the bombing on Monday and identified Hammad as the attacker soon after the explosion at the Tel Aviv falafel stand. The group said that this terror attack was the first of 70, Israel Radio reported.

In a video released by the group, Hammad said the bombing was dedicated to the thousands of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails. "There are many other bombers on the way," he said.

16 years old...And then you say that palestinian CHILDREN don´t do anything,why israeli forces go after your "children".
Freedom of movement you say.
Open the borders you say.
FIRST OF 70 terror attack they say.
What should you suggest next?
That Israel should seat and wait for the rest of 69 attacks?Why you did not even comment why did the people in Tel Aviv died from?
They do not deserve any comment they are just numbers for you?

Shells are going to continue,for sure.

6:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous 6:56:

"You talk about bias" how is it that when you took her words "9 killed in Tel Aviv, another Palestinian boy killed in Beit Lahiya by Israeli shelling" you managed to forget quoting the rest of the,I will remind you "(that makes 16 since the start of the year)... and I just heard an explosion near my house"
Bytw, she was only refering to the number of CHILDREN killed since the beginning of the year.

No one is excusing the suicide bomber here, but One child's life is not better or than the other. Obviously you only want to read what you want to read. So god forbid, you should have any feelings of humanity to any other side.

11:34 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Moved from the other blog:

finally to Tomer: So what will you do when the Palestinian Arab population in Israel exceeds the Jewish one, as is predicted to happen sooner or later? Will you adopt Leiberman's policies of transfer? Or will you simply atempt to mass populate empty areas of the negev and Galile that belonged to my husband and his family and thousands of other Palestinain refugees? Or will you impose Chinese laws that disqualify them from benefits if they give birth to more than one child?

It's hard to reply to this since you mixed a valid question, with an assumption or two, an accusation and an irrelevant law (Just for your information, most minorities in China are actually exempt/overlooked with regards to the one child law… so it’s quite the opposite if your idea)

The demographic question you asked is rather irrelevant in a 2-country system where the Palestinian Arab population lives in a Palestinian Arab state. Or are you talking about the minority that would stay part of an Israeli state?

About your Husband and his land in the Negev or the Galil… why did you bring that up? How is it relevant? Did I bring up the fact that the West Bank is part of Jordan and Palestinians don’t exist as a nation? No... since I thought we were beyond the game of fact slinging and history digging.

The situation is: Israel exists, a Palestinian nation exists.

Let’s solve the puzzle with what we have… you want to play the history game?

Fine, history is written by the victors and we both agree that Israel is stronger than Palestine. Let’s play this the historic way? Why do so many Palestinians insist on trying to prove who’s right and not solve the problems at hand?

The Native American Indians are right; yet they live on reservations,

The Tibetans are right, yet live in exile.

The Aborigines in Australia were there before Crocodile Dundee…

So you want to tell me about your Husband and the Galil? Is this about who was here first? Why don’t we use archeology to prove who was here first (And no, you aren’t a Philistine or Canaanite) If we keep going back in history we can both prove we are right, you can tell me about your husband, I can tell you he was stupid to have attacked my grandmother when the British left, then you can tell me about his father and I can tell you about my great grandfather… It’s pointless… maybe you will end up right (Maybe I will end up right), but if we don’t try to find a solution together you will stay “right” and occupied and oppressed.

Some people in Israel claim that the PA enjoys this oppressed status, that there are many people in the system who prefer things as they are, because they wouldn’t know how to run a country otherwise… It sounded pretty true for Arafat atleast.

So let’s talk about your land in the Galil, and you can explain to me why Israel has no justification of existence as you see it. Maybe if I’m convinced, I’ll get up, go to some European embassy or other, ask for citizenship and move to Poland…

Or maybe I should go talk to the Italians about their Human rights violations 2000 years ago, I’ll go to Rome and look for the papers about my ancestors living in the west bank.

12:56 PM  
Blogger Moses said...

The difference is we're not talking about thousands or hundreds of years. Palestinians who were forced into exile still have keys and deeds.

Might may make facts, but might doesn't make right.

If someone were to suggest in the latter part of the 20th century that the US solve its racial problems by creating a white state and a black state most wouldn't support that two state solution.

7:10 PM  
Blogger Anne Rettenberg LCSW said...


The Native Americans don't HAVE to live on reservations. They are free to travel and live wherever they want to in the 50 states.

1:03 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Abu Shaar,

I’m pretty sure I answered you about this, either on another post/blog or maybe it was erased…

If the issue is time “thousands or hundreds of years” why don’t we just wait a hundred years and see where those keys and deeds are?

The Issue isn’t time, and again, we can go back proving who was here first endlessly.

Wouldn’t you prefer finding a practical real solution? Something both sides can live with? “War doesn’t prove who’s right, only who’s left”

Elizabeth, no they don't HAVE to live on reservations, thanks for pointing that out.

1:27 AM  
Blogger Moses said...

You may have missed my point.

That the Catastrophe happened relatively recently. At the time I suppose creating a state based on religion or tribe, however you slice it, may have to some seemed like a good idea. But not in the 21st century.

But again, look at South Africa.
I was deeply involved in the antiapartheid movement yet I and many others were happily surprised when that country became free and democratic for all of its people.
That it did not violently break up into a white state and a black state.

And apartheid was just instituted in 1948 (in South Africa)

7:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Abu Shaar,

Looking at South Africa is nice, but irrelevant.

Skin Color is not Religion and Cultural background. The apartheid system in South Africa was horrible and it's also nothing like what's going in Israel.

But! Since we are giving worldwide examples:

At the time I suppose creating a state based on religion or tribe, however you slice it, may have to some seemed like a good idea. But not in the 21st century.

I agree!

Please email the embassies of the following countries:

Islamic Republic of Afghanistan
Islamic Republic of Iran
Islamic Republic of Mauritania
Islamic Republic of Pakistan

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (Who's motto is لا إله إلا الله محمد رسول الله

People's Democratic Republic of Algeria (Who fly a crescent on their flag and Green for Islam)

I'm sure you can find more examples. And I trust you will comment on the blogs of citizens of those countries.

Thanks for your support!

9:13 PM  
Blogger Laila said...

I'm sorry Tomer, I may be going off on a tangent here, but did Saudi Arabia occupy the country they currently reside in before they elected to make it exclusive to saudi natives (you can be christian and saudi by the way..speaking of experience, since I lived there or 15 years)?

9:29 PM  
Blogger Moses said...

Also: "The Arabs do it too!" isn't a very persuasive argument.

So which is it going to be?
A democracy or a Jewish state?

9:55 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Laila, Abu Shaar.

You misunderstood me completely… I believe in the existence of state based on religion. I believe in a Jewish homeland with a Star of David on the flag.

I’m saying, If Abu Shaar is so against it, I’m sure he will write to those embassies. Or is he against it just for Jews?

10:21 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


I’ve a touch of insomnia and what you said about Saudi Arabia interested me (regardless of our Israel/Palestine conversations)

My facts on Saudi Arabia come mostly from Wikipedia, which I don’t find as a 100% realible source, but it says that “Saudi Arabia does not permit religious freedom and bans all non-Muslim worship” is that not true? Were you a citizen, can you become one?

It also says Jews aren’t allowed into Saudi Arabia (Not Israelis, but Jews) I was wondering if this also might be an error. Is this a problem with Zionists or Judaism as a religion?

Wiki also states that Abdul Aziz Al-Saud took control of Saudi Arabia in a military fashion, and that the Saudis took Mecca from the Hashemite. They seem pretty violent and not very accepting of non-Muslims, so we really don’t know who was around these past 80 or so years.

Now, I brought up Saudi Arabia as an example of a religious state, and it was not my intention to go into the specifics of what goes on there… but do you really want to compare the Human Rights violations the Israeli government has made vs. the Human Rights violations going on in Saudi Arabia?

Saudia Arabia was used to show the double standard Abu Shaar seems to have regarding “states based on religion or tribes” (Is the Hashemite Kingdom or Jordan a tribal state for example?)

IF Abu Shaar thinks that ALL states based on religion are wrong, including Muslim states, I stand corrected.

3:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is all about fingerpointing.
"I am right, you are wrong."
As long as both sides fingerpoint nothing will be solved!
Both sides are wrong. Terrorism is wrong from both sides.
The children should be the main concern!
If you don't consider the children you are wrong!
I have read too many sites blaming each other. YOU ARE BOTH WRONG.
Violence is the primitive method of settling an argument.
I guess that the Zionists and the radical Muslims are primitive.

4:29 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

everybody should rea and digest:

8:23 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Abu Shaar,

First of all thank you for answering on the fact that you do NOT in fact believe in a state based on Religion, I’ll repeat and say I do.

I wonder if you are in fact active against the states I listed above, if you protest or comment on blogs and such, it would mean a lot, you someone with in the Arab world fighting for something you believe in like that.

See, I believe in a Jewish homeland where I can not work on Sabbath by default, were everything is closed on Yom Kippur and where the TV stations have their programming set according to the Jewish Calendar. Where the army keeps kosher and Jewish New Year is an official holiday.

If you prefer living in a secular state where no religion is official, that is your choice, and I believe in secular as well as religion based states.

The US or UK as you mentioned have are secular states with separation of church and state. And not Christian states, as you mentioned.

Back to the past (Because this isn't the present). Was South Africa divided after their colonial conquers left? Two parts for two different groups? No, hence the situation is quite different…

Is “white” a religion? Were the blacks in South Africa imported by yet another colonial conqueror?

Does the law in Israel prohibit sexual relations between religions?

Many Muslim Bedouins and Druze hold Military careers in the IDF, under apartheid were blacks allowed in the South African military? Israeli Arabs can go to any university in Israel without segregation or separation. Was that common in South Africa?

Apartheid is about separating two people according to skin color in the same land, holding them accountable to a different set of laws.

The separation in Israel/Palestine is about two different nations/cultures/religions, to live each in their own separately governed country as each group sees fit.

Israel didn’t define the Area in which Palestinians can live as far as I know, the UN did. The Arab world did help redefine it after the fact, but when you loose a few wars, things like that are bound to happen.

And about the poll and culture…

I’m sure many westerns around the world find Arab culture inferior, you see, many people find it hard to accept “different people” and are closed to other cultures, especially because people have a tendency to associate politics, stereotypes and prejudice. I’m also sure many Arabs find Western culture or specifically Jewish culture as inferior or maybe morally corrupted and are equally closed to it.

Much of Israeli culture IS Arab culture as a large percent of Israeli Jews are of Moroccan, Iraqi, Yemenite, etc. decent. We eat Arab food and a large percent of us listen to music very similar to the kind found across the Middle East. We use words like “Ahalan”, “Walla” and “Yaani” daily. (Now you can tell me we are stealing your culture, while hating it)

Please show me polls about Israelis when you have proper polls done reflecting the Arab/Muslim world as well. What do the people in Gaza think of Jewish culture? What about Koreans about Muslim culture? Chinese about Indian culture?

(Actually I’m not a big fan on statistics anyways since you can prove anything if you direct the questions the right way…)

Again, instead of comparing Israel to Apartheid, and telling me how many Israelis think this and that about Arabs, wouldn’t it be more prudent to think of developing a solution both sides can be happy with?

The more you look foward, the easier it will be to move that way... every tried driving a car and just looking back?

10:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

So all you live in puralistic utopian States with no national religion or heritage. Secular to the core.

Ethnic and religious heritage are a big part of who we are.Only recently have countries become more multi cultural

Britain and the US are tehnically Christian though liberal and tolerant ones. That we are heading towards multi-culural socieites does not shed us of our principles or founding history. British and American Jews are quite aware that they live in a State founded on Christain principles, our pillars, often called Juda-Christain tradition. Do you really think most Jews think America or Britain is non religious with no official religion - it is those very principles that have guaranteed freedom of faith.

I do not see a problem in an official State Religion for any State/Country. Shall we throw out our heritage to suit all?? As long as it is tolerant to minorities it is no big deal. Arabs don't either as pointed out by Tomer. Neither does Hamas, it is a Islamic political party. Chinese are buddist, etc etc, I don't understand what the big deal is here. Ask the average Brition or American. We like our heritage and would not ask any country to give up it's official religion, but luckily we are very tolerant societies that give everyone freedom to worship as they please.

New reader to blogging. Interesting stuff

11:04 PM  
Blogger Moses said...

The separation in Israel/Palestine is about two different nations/cultures/religions, to live each in their own separately governed country as each group sees fit.

Which was precisely the apartheid argument.
You could look it up.

11:09 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Abu Shaar,

Looked it up, isn't the same thing.

Just in case you weren't reading, here is a quote:

Does the law in Israel prohibit sexual relations between religions?

Many Muslim Bedouins and Druze hold Military careers in the IDF, under apartheid were blacks allowed in the South African military? Israeli Arabs can go to any university in Israel without segregation or separation. Was that common in South Africa?

Apartheid is about separating two people according to skin color in the same land, holding them accountable to a different set of laws.

Thanks for your time. But i don't think comparing Israel to South Africa is very productive nor does it advance anyone anywhere.

3:53 AM  
Blogger Moses said...

The term in English is settler colonialism

12:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Abu Shaar,

Google has about 68 results for "settler colonialism"

It doesn't seem to be a very well-known term.

Sounds like more terminology used in the Online-Intifada used to attack Israel and not not promote peace.

3:57 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Abu Shaar,

Have you ever lived in or visited South Africa?

12:12 AM  
Blogger Moses said...

Really? Try 50,400 hits

5:43 AM  

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